Recommendations for a new battery - NOT Lithium.

[NJKris]

Into my 8th year with my Deka GC15s. Paid 280 bucks for those monsters, now they cost that just for one. Never going back to lead after they are done.

 

[RhumbleFish]

Looking for a recommendations for a new battery - NOT Lithium.

I'm a member of the LiFePO4 converted, but am not hear to preach or argue (promise) – instead, I'd like to learn. Why "no lithium" and - further - why AGM? I'm curious.

AGM (in particular, Optima) have excellent vibration protection, longer lifespan, higher performance, and greater resistance to vibration and gassing compared to traditional FLA, but a much higher initial price point (reducing $/watt hour - especially over lifespan) and feature performance advantages geared more toward auto applications that don't necessarily align with RV needs.

 

[NMWildcat]

Well, the OP clearly stated he did not want lithium. Still, lots of folks bound and determined to 'convert' him

I understand. Plenty of my friends try to convince me to change over, but I simply have no interest at this time. What I have works perfectly for me and I have no need to 'improve' things.

Hopefully the OP will come back and let us know what batteries he decided to go with.

 

[RhumbleFish]

Well, the OP clearly stated he did not want lithium. Still, lots of folks bound and determined to 'convert' him

That's the what, Scott, not the why. I'm really trying to understand, not convert. Likewise, I'm not looking to get him to invest in a defensive statement only to respond with "This will change your mind!!!!" Maybe it's rare in this day and age, dunno.

The *only* thing I'd have him consider considering is the (seemingly unnecessary) upcharge for AGM - he'd be paying for performance that wouldn't necessarily serve his needs, and would/could likely be better off with some well built CG's, namely Trojan or Interstate, that seem to more closely align with RV battery bank duty... but that's an ancillary discussion.

 

[pgandw]

I know you are against lithium - I was too because of the cost. I was using a pair of Interstate 210AH GC-2s that reached 6 years, but would no longer hold much of a charge. Found a 160AH LiFePO4 with Bluetooth battery on Amazon for $220, which was less than the cost of the replacement GC-2s at Costco. Big advantages for me are the Bluetooth monitoring on my phone, and reducing my tongue weight by 90lbs. And my shoulders and back thank me for the lighter weight, as does the camper and tow vehicle.

I do not have a lithium converter, so new battery only charges to 90% when on shore power (then I shut battery off until I no longer have shore power). But lithium batteries, unlike lead acid, don't mind not being fully charged. I will likely buy a 20A lithium charger if/when cell balancing becomes necessary - it's a lot less necessary if you operate between 20% and less than 100%. Different mindset with lithium compared to lead acid.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Hyundai Palisade

 

[Aussieguy]

Purely practical reasons and $$$

I got 12v fridge and could not overnight
Spent 400 on battery that can last me ten years …. Does exactly what I need and for powering everything 12v

Spent another 500 on solar

Instead of a weekend camping I can stay out as long as I want

If weather goes south…. Small generator could get me recharged in about 2 hours
Not 6 or more hours the older lead acids

If… we offended someone by asking why not Is that the end of the world?
—————
But….. Others that read this discussion may get info they need

Now the OP has in his history has one thread about …. Dead 2 year old lead acids

OP was given information about BOTH and no one is forcing him to do anything

 

[TexasJackKin]

I the whole conversation interesting. My trailer came with 2 FLA batteries, which I gave away to friends, and put a 280 AH lifep04. But I understand people have reasons for what they do, and I see it as an opportunity for me to learn something.

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

Looking for a recommendations for a new battery - NOT Lithium.
I had AGM's in my Miata and they last forever. But the Heavy Duty AGM Optima's are $300+ ea and I need 2. Looking for suggestions for other, reliable AGM batteries. Opinions on Optima batteries would also be valuable.

Thanks In Advance.
Mike

Just to clarify.... This battery is for a car... your Miata.
Did a Google search and found a lot of different alternatives for your battery.
Unfortunately, I don't have a recommendation. Too many variables.

Just be glad you don't have my Kia Soul EX which has specific requirements due to it's electric start. It shuts off at signal lights unless you override it, and the cheapest replacement battery was at the dealers for $300+. Luckily, I only need one not two.
Even worse, my RAM chassis in the REV requires a special battery that was designed by RAM and for a long time, it was only available at RAM dealers.

 

[RhumbleFish]

Just to clarify.... This battery is for a car... your Miata.

The Optima is what the OP used in their car, and they are citing it because "they last forever" (in that particular application). They are asking for a non-lithium recommendation for their trailer—a Flagstaff MicroLite 21FSB, purchased new in June of 2023.

This is tied into two previous conversations about their current trailer batteries being 'dead' at 12.2 volts, when the OP left them connected (and potentially switched on) in the trailer to overwinter, with the belief that solar would keep up with any parasitic loss: No DC Power. Micro Lite 21FBRS. and Batteries dead. Not charging from solar.

I hope they come back and continue the discussion.

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

The Optima is what the OP used in their car, and they are citing it because "they last forever" (in that particular application). They are asking for a non-lithium recommendation for their trailer—a Flagstaff MicroLite 21FSB, purchased new in June of 2023.

This is tied into two previous conversations about their current trailer batteries being 'dead' at 12.2 volts, when the OP left them connected to overwinter, potentially with the hope that solar would keep up with any parasitic loss: No DC Power. Micro Lite 21FBRS. and Batteries dead. Not charging from solar.

I hope they come back and continue the discussion.

I'm embarrassed. I totally missed the post that clarified that it was for his trailer.

If he doesn't want AMGs, the best option would be lead acid with maintenance on those batteries to make certain the water level in the batteries is correct.
I would think solar would keep up, but I've seen a lot of videos of people having to clean those panels to keep them producing electricity.

 

[RhumbleFish]

I'm embarrassed. I totally missed the post that clarified that it was for his trailer.

No worries, friend - it's easy to read past all this stuff. You've got lots on your plate, I'm sure!

If he doesn't want AMGs, the best option would be lead acid with maintenance on those batteries to make certain the water level in the batteries is correct.

He actually seems to want AGMs... based on his experience with them in his Miata. I can't say that's necessarily a good choice (or a source of experience to apply to his RV), aas the usage is VERY different ... and especially if $$$ cost is a driver (as it seems to be).

I would think solar would keep up, but I've seen a lot of videos of people having to clean those panels to keep them producing electricity.

I don't know if he's said how much solar he's got, seems like there's a few moving pieces. He says he "left the batteries turned on" and later "turned them off." I think he means his battery disconnect/trailer power switch, which would potentially increase use rate. I don't know how Flagstaff is hooking up solar to the battery in their MicroLite, I've got my solar run through two separate switched circuits for panel disconnects.

Best way to overwinter (well maintained and properly performing) FLAs in a cold environment that *I* know of (for an owner that has NO need to have energized) would be to charge them to completely full, then disconnect them entirely and leave them sit. A fully charged FLA can sit nice and tidy in super cold weather and be just fine come the spring thaw.

Just my .02.

 

[NCWanderers]

Sometimes there are just personal reasons not to buy and support lithium....... I use Interstate Deep cycle marine batteries. I get from 5 to 7 years out of a set. I do have a 75 watt solar panel on the roof keeping the topped off. I check the water levels every 3 months.

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

I'm wondering if the AGM's would actually fit in the existing battery box.
We replaced the lead acid battery with an AGM in our motorhome and it was not only bigger, but it was definitely heavier...... Something to consider.

 

[tomkatb]

Classic engineering thing.

The customer has some reason to pay me for my opinion and then demands I do what they want.

We politely try to persuade them otherwise, then give the customer what they want. They are paying for my time.

Few of us have great knowledge of which AGM battery is the best in this situation. My recommendation is pick the one you like best. Usually you get more value for more money. I doubt the Optima is the best for the dollar. They are special I agree. I put Murray AGM batteries in our pickup. Two 31’s I think. Fine for starting the diesel pickup. Big ones. Advanced auto AGM battery in the Jag.

In the battery world there are only a few manufactures. Lots of different stickers. Except for Optima I doubt the brand means much.

I put SOK batteries in my rv.

 

[NCWanderers]

I know you are against lithium - I was too because of the cost. I was using a pair of Interstate 210AH GC-2s that reached 6 years, but would no longer hold much of a charge. Found a 160AH LiFePO4 with Bluetooth battery on Amazon for $220, which was less than the cost of the replacement GC-2s at Costco. Big advantages for me are the Bluetooth monitoring on my phone, and reducing my tongue weight by 90lbs. And my shoulders and back thank me for the lighter weight, as does the camper and tow vehicle.

I do not have a lithium converter, so new battery only charges to 90% when on shore power (then I shut battery off until I no longer have shore power). But lithium batteries, unlike lead acid, don't mind not being fully charged. I will likely buy a 20A lithium charger if/when cell balancing becomes necessary - it's a lot less necessary if you operate between 20% and less than 100%. Different mindset with lithium compared to lead acid.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Hyundai Palisade

Some people are against Lithium because of the environmental/geopolitical impacts of mining for lithium. It has nothing to do with $$$$. I'm not looking to start a debate about that, I just wanted to point out that the OP said no lithium, didn't say why and maybe didn't want to because he didn't want to start a debate. If no one has an answer to his question (as posed) why not just remain silent and move on to the next topic?

 

[Mike-Mat]

I had experience with AGM's in the past, lasting long and wondered if they were worth it. Seems they're not. No particular advantage.
Sounds like FLA is my best option since I dont want Lithium. Figured that's where this would lead to.
So, I was also looking for "brand" recommendations. Made in America would be great. Seems like many are made in Mexico now. "Interstate" brand was mentioned several times. I couldn't tell if they were better, or just most available. If they're all the same, It makes sense to just buy the lowest cost option. If one is better, I'll willing to spend the $ for something that will last.

Questions about my rig: It has solar. The solar is suppose to keep the batteries charged, even when the batteries are switched off (i.e. disconnected from the system). 2 Years ago I had a problem with snow on the panel = dead batteries (probably not disconnected and drained the batteries). This past winter, I dont know, it just died and I dont know why. In any event, this was enough to ruin my existing batteries.

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I appreciate your time and experience.

Mike

 

[pgandw]

Some people are against Lithium because of the environmental/geopolitical impacts of mining for lithium. It has nothing to do with $$$$. I'm not looking to start a debate about that, I just wanted to point out that the OP said no lithium, didn't say why and maybe didn't want to because he didn't want to start a debate. If no one has an answer to his question (as posed) why not just remain silent and move on to the next topic?

I gave my opinion and reasons, same as you have to me. Go camping and have a great day. I do have a question for you - have you ever studied the environmental impacts of lead and sulfur mining? Lead, which can be ingested through the skin, is an accumulating toxin that the human body cannot eliminate. Lithium actually is used to treat psychological conditions. Too much lithium is toxic, but some is needed.

Fred W

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

Questions about my rig: It has solar. The solar is suppose to keep the batteries charged, even when the batteries are switched off (i.e. disconnected from the system). 2 Years ago I had a problem with snow on the panel = dead batteries (probably not disconnected and drained the batteries). This past winter, I dont know, it just died and I dont know why. In any event, this was enough to ruin my existing batteries.

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I appreciate your time and experience.

Mike

Unless you're in super cold winters, topping off the water in the batteries, charging the batteries until they are full and then using a battery disconnect switch on the batteries, should keep them charged over winter.
If it's super cold, removing the batteries and storing them inside might be a better solution.
Unfortunately, I don't know what battery is 'best'. I can't keep up.

 

[cavecreekgoat]

Because I dont want Lithium.

wonderful and insightful answer

 

[tomkatb]

Costco in The past sold the GC2 battery at a great price. Under $100 each.

It has been a while since I priced them there.

I like the Trojans but, they were almost .100% more expensive years ago. Their engineering papers were the stuff we engineers dream of.

My interstates were great for the 5 years I had them. As far as I know they were still 100% working. I was good at keeping them full.

They are the same footprint as 27’s I am told. They are taller. One should measure.