Why tires fail ?

[Witch Doctor]

So what is causing this type of damage? At first I thought maybe I hit something but to get 2 with the same identical damage I think not. There aren't any obstructions above the tire and more than enough room to the floor above. No flat spot across the width so I'm pretty sure I didn't lock the brakes.

The first time was last August and about 12000 miles.

The second one was last week and about 17000 miles.

Neither lost any pressure and were caught during tire checks every 2 hours.

Could this be the start of throwing the tread? They are Trail Express manufacture 5212 so they would've been changed out this year anyway.

Trail Express tires are pure garbage got those on mine when new, had a blowout no damage. Lions head wanted me to send them back the tire, ya right lion head and keep there garbage. No TRAIL EXPRESS DEALERS. Had 6000 miles on them but they were only a year old. Didn't know or have a TST system or know about them either now I have my 3rd set of tires on which Maxxis 8008 "D" rated, second set where GY Marathons with chuncks coming out on one showing the belt like yours and one with the belt just broke and ballooned the tire. Had TST on them when the belt punctured a small whole in the tire and was able to tell and pull off before damage to the trailer. Now I'm on Maxxis. Like them so far I have like 2000 miles on them since I put them on....

 

[dbarr]

What is the DOT serial of the tires?

Don't know. Got my use out them and figured they were at the end of life at 17000 miles. No complaints.
I posted pics so that others could see how missing damage as this in regular tire checks can lead to failure. I suspect when these let loose a tpms would be useless.

Trail Express tires are pure garbage got those on mine when new, had a blowout no damage. Lions head wanted me to send them back the tire, ya right lion head and keep there garbage. No TRAIL EXPRESS DEALERS. Had 6000 miles on them but they were only a year old. Didn't know or have a TST system or know about them either now I have my 3rd set of tires on which Maxxis 8008 "D" rated, second set where GY Marathons with chuncks coming out on one showing the belt like yours and one with the belt just broke and ballooned the tire. Had TST on them when the belt punctured a small whole in the tire and was able to tell and pull off before damage to the trailer. Now I'm on Maxxis. Like them so far I have like 2000 miles on them since I put them on....

Depends on what you're pulling. If I were expecting them to hold close to 6000lbs they would've been gone as well.

Looks like it's (sometimes) hitting something in the wheelwell.

Nothing but flat flooring above with plenty of space.

 

[W5CI]

Old age and Low pressure are the two main issues, plus just poor quality to start with. with tires you get what you pay for

 

[FastEagle]

Nothing but flat flooring above with plenty of space.

I know. But, when making sharp turns parking in tight sites the axles will re- position from side to side which can cause them to hit suspension parts.

In a closer look at your picture the damaged area seems to be from something sharp. It appears to have started on the RH side as it's smoother there than on the LH side.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=30619

 

[Witch Doctor]

Old age and Low pressure are the two main issues, plus just poor quality to start with. with tires you get what you pay for

Trail Express are just cheap garbage FR puts on, mine where C rated with 50 lbs. Max PSI. They were able to carry the 9200 Gvw. But only had like 140 lb. Cushion per tire. But they where legal and certified. Went to "D" rated for a 500 lb weight cushion. Anyone will only get the bear min. That they are required by law period. If you ask for a upgrade they say they don't have one. Why because they would have to admit they are not putting the best tire on, that is per the Manager of Rockwood division. On a tour factory, at least he was honest.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[dbarr]

I know. But, when making sharp turns parking in tight sites the axles will re- position from side to side which can cause them to hit suspension parts.



In a closer look at your picture the damaged area seems to be from something sharp. It appears to have started on the RH side as it's smoother there than on the LH side.



http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=30619

There is nothing to hit. Also, if you could see it in person you would also see that the tread is deformed 8" to the left of the cords in picture 2. A depression nearly 1/4" deep in the center of the rib. The cords weren't damaged on either like I would expect to see if something carved out the rubber deep enough to expose the cord and slightly down each side of it.

It's a worn out tire about to come apart.

 

[dcheatwood]

If you dismount this tire it will most likely be egg shaped due to tread pulling apart inside. I've been through 2 sets of trail exploders, on 2 new campers, 3 explosive blowouts and a tread separation related flat. Caught the 5th one before it blew.

 

[dbarr]

Dropped it off and never saw it again.

 

[FastEagle]

Why do so many trailer tires (ST) fail?

There is no clear answer, only speculation. Anecdotal information drives speculations into name calling and negative design confidence.

As everyday tire users we are spoiled. We don't suffer tire failures with our everyday vehicles. When we do they can almost always be accounted for. Most of us will go for many years without a single tire failure. Then we get a RV trailer and POP goes the tires.

The tires on our everyday vehicles are - in most cases - specifically designed for the vehicle they are on. They are quality graded for all sorts of conditions with tread designs to match the grading. Their load capacity has been derived from the maximum loaded vehicle with a 6% reserve left over which will seldom, if ever, be used. They are constantly in use so the built-in chemical compounds stay in action and degrading is held at the bare minimum. Most of them will wear out long before they will ever get old enough to be effected by degradation or age or both.

On the other hand the RV trailer also has tires specifically designed for their position. And that's where almost all of the similarity ends. Seldom has a tire design been scrutinized as often and with such detail as the ST tire. Almost all of the American manufacturers have given up on the trailer tire or have sent it to their off shore plants in faraway places like China, Vietnam, Korea, Taiwan or Thailand etc.

Most users that have had a ST tire failure or numerous ones are not going to like or agree with many of my analogies on this subject. The overwhelming evidence will support my stance but there are no official statistical findings to support what I say. But, logic always has a strong influence on many outcomes in the absence of other evidence.

In the absence of numerous recalls for the ST tire one must assume the design is sound and cannot, by itself, have caused the many failures reported against it.

Once the design is ruled out of the failure scenario the cause must lie elsewhere. So, is there a single cause or a combination of causes? I like multiple causes over the single one. Of course any highly abused single cause can also be the culprit.

Here are my accusations. We overload our trailers. We speed with our trailers. We take a somewhat lackadaisical attitude about our trailer's tire pressures. We store our trailers for long periods of time - six months or more - with no regard for the tire's condition or pressures. The trailer may not even be level which causes tires on the low side to become overloaded for their entire time in storage. We don't balance or rotate the trailer tires. Sometimes the spare is exposed to the elements for so long it explodes.

 

[Tireman9]

Trail Express tires are pure garbage got those on mine when new, had a blowout no damage. Lions head wanted me to send them back the tire, ya right lion head and keep there garbage. No TRAIL EXPRESS DEALERS. Had 6000 miles on them but they were only a year old. Didn't know or have a TST system or know about them either now I have my 3rd set of tires on which Maxxis 8008 "D" rated, second set where GY Marathons with chuncks coming out on one showing the belt like yours and one with the belt just broke and ballooned the tire. Had TST on them when the belt punctured a small whole in the tire and was able to tell and pull off before damage to the trailer. Now I'm on Maxxis. Like them so far I have like 2000 miles on them since I put them on....

There are a few different reasons for a tire to fail. Loss of air pressure is the "cause" that TPMS can warn about. No idea what you mean by "blowout" as that word is used by many to identify almost any failure. Possibly it was a Tread Separation (bot broken belts or slipped belts) or a Run Low Flex (which you avoided because you now have a TPM (good decision)
Bet if you didn't have the TPMS you would have suffered a Run Low Flex and would now be complaining about foreign made junk tires.

 

[Campahedu]

tire wear

I have been reading a lot of the post on TT tire failure and am very concerned with my tires. I bought my TT (2015 Wildwood Lite 262BHXL) in spring of 2015. The tires on it are Ridgeway Sport ST 205/75 C 14". I have gone over 4000 miles but did not notice my tire pressure was at 32 psi until after the first 2000. I have since put 50 psi in but have abnormal wear. I have attached a picture of the worst tire. Should I replace with the same brand and C rating or should I increase to a D rated tire? Is there something I should check for the abnormal wear? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tireman9]

I know. But, when making sharp turns parking in tight sites the axles will re- position from side to side which can cause them to hit suspension parts.

In a closer look at your picture the damaged area seems to be from something sharp. It appears to have started on the RH side as it's smoother there than on the LH side.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=30619

Sorry but in my experience what we see is the result of something like a pocket of air being built into the tire. The ragged appearance is from abrasion with the road of belt skim rubber which is not designed for any contact with the road surface. The "bubble" allowed the tread rubber to move against the road with every rotation and it then wore away at a faster rate then the surrounding rubber.

As I said earlier the tire should be returned to dealer for adjustment. FR made the decision to supply the Trail Express so IMO they need to take responsibility for their decisions.

 

[Tireman9]

I have been reading a lot of the post on TT tire failure and am very concerned with my tires. I bought my TT (2015 Wildwood Lite 262BHXL) in spring of 2015. The tires on it are Ridgeway Sport ST 205/75 C 14". I have gone over 4000 miles but did not notice my tire pressure was at 32 psi until after the first 2000. I have since put 50 psi in but have abnormal wear. I have attached a picture of the worst tire. Should I replace with the same brand and C rating or should I increase to a D rated tire? Is there something I should check for the abnormal wear? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Once damage has been done to a tire from running low on pressure, putting air back in it does not "fix" the damage. I do not know why so many seem to believe that but know that putting spoiled milk back into the refrigerator doesn't "fix" the milk.

I see you have a TPMS. When did you install it? You need to run an active TPMS that provides reading to the driver of the air pressure in the tires.
You also need to do a detailed inspection as outlined in THIS blog post.

The tires on the TT are worn out. You are lucky they did not fail due to poor maintenance (lack of proper inflation).
Moving to LR-D may be a good choice but you still need to keep them fully inflated to 65 psi they require. Have you confirmed your actual load on each axle? When you do you will see that the load is not split 50/50 on each axle not is it split 50/50 side to side. Your most loaded tire probably carries 200 - 400 more pounds than the light loaded tire.

 

[Witch Doctor]

There are a few different reasons for a tire to fail. Loss of air pressure is the "cause" that TPMS can warn about. No idea what you mean by "blowout" as that word is used by many to identify almost any failure. Possibly it was a Tread Separation (bot broken belts or slipped belts) or a Run Low Flex (which you avoided because you now have a TPM (good decision)
Bet if you didn't have the TPMS you would have suffered a Run Low Flex and would now be complaining about foreign made junk tires.

When I see a puff of air just as I looked back, I pulled off the I95 and slowly went a few 100' to the off ramp. By the time I got to the off ramp and stopped the tire was just shot. Gy showed me where the side wall blew and 3 or 4" split in it. Can't repair a sidewall. I call it a Blow out but I also do not write blogs..... PS: tireman9, I was not complaining I was stating facts. Trail Express are Junk IMO. They should have never been "C" rated to begin with for that weight. It's pretty easy to weight a trailer, When you blow a whole though the sidewall or split they are junk. Gy Marathons where always my choice that I used 3 years plus ago GY moved all there ST tires off shore, they used to be made in Alabama and NC. They were good then, Now I question there construction. I only ever used GY on all my trailers, but no more...

 

[Campahedu]

Thanks Tireman. I just recently put the TPMS system on (that's when I noticed the lower pressure.) Buying new from a dealer, I mistakenly assumed that it would have been done correctly. This is my first TT and am quite new to this type of camping.

 

[dcheatwood]

I Finally got on the PC so I can show this "egg-shaped" tire that the tire service man caught before it blew, while changing the last blow. Then he told me what to look for. This is a LR E and was at 80 PSI when he removed it from the trailer.

 

[Tireman9]

I Finally got on the PC so I can show this "egg-shaped" tire that the tire service man caught before it blew, while changing the last blow. Then he told me what to look for. This is a LR E and was at 80 PSI when he removed it from the trailer.
View attachment 114686

View attachment 114687

View attachment 114688

Yup and a complaint for each tire should be filed with NHTSA (including the full DOT serial).
Quality will not improve till the tire companies feel a bit of pain in the pocket book. This pain comes in the form of a recall. A recall will never be initiated until there is an investigation and that will not start if there are not a good number of complaints on file at NHTSA.
The good news / bad news for RV owners is that tire failures do not result in personal injury or death and with a limited budged NHTSA has to prioritize the use of their resources with injury getting first priority.

Some facts:
1. NHTSA does not monitor RV forums.
2. I see maybe 20 to 40 more complaints about tires online than I can find in the NHTSA database which means RV owners are not making the effort to file complaints.
3. A review of the few complaints that are on file, show that only a very few RV owners can provide the tire DOT serial which is a critical part of the investigation.

 

[Super 8]

Yup and a complaint for each tire should be filed with NHTSA (including the full DOT serial).
Quality will not improve till the tire companies feel a bit of pain in the pocket book. This pain comes in the form of a recall. A recall will never be initiated until there is an investigation and that will not start if there are not a good number of complaints on file at NHTSA.
The good news / bad news for RV owners is that tire failures do not result in personal injury or death and with a limited budged NHTSA has to prioritize the use of their resources with injury getting first priority.

Some facts:
1. NHTSA does not monitor RV forums.
2. I see maybe 20 to 40 more complaints about tires online than I can find in the NHTSA database which means RV owners are not making the effort to file complaints.
3. A review of the few complaints that are on file, show that only a very few RV owners can provide the tire DOT serial which is a critical part of the investigation.

For what it's worth, I filed a complaint on 6/27/16 and still have not heard back.

 

[FastEagle]

What I’m going to say here is supported by a lot of people in the tire industry who’s recommendations are similar to what I say in this post.

When you experience a catastrophic tire failure on a multi axle trailer the likelihood of other tire damage is very possible. Especially the tire (s) in tandem with the failed tire. As a minimal precaution, the tandem tire (s) should be inspected by a tire person. Actually, the safest thing that can be done is just change all tires on the side of the trailer where the initial failure occurred.

When reading failure reports filed with NHTSA the writer often describes “limping” to a place of repair. If that tandem tire is not also replaced, that owner is actually “limping” away from the repair facility and surely can expect that damaged tire to fail, probably catastrophically. Now if the trailer is allowed to limp in for another replacement for the previously damaged tire, the recently replaced tire is damaged. Don’t let that type of chain reaction fog your tire failure reports.

 

[Tireman9]

What I’m going to say here is supported by a lot of people in the tire industry who’s recommendations are similar to what I say in this post.

When you experience a catastrophic tire failure on a multi axle trailer the likelihood of other tire damage is very possible. Especially the tire (s) in tandem with the failed tire. As a minimal precaution, the tandem tire (s) should be inspected by a tire person. Actually, the safest thing that can be done is just change all tires on the side of the trailer where the initial failure occurred.

When reading failure reports filed with NHTSA the writer often describes “limping” to a place of repair. If that tandem tire is not also replaced, that owner is actually “limping” away from the repair facility and surely can expect that damaged tire to fail, probably catastrophically. Now if the trailer is allowed to limp in for another replacement for the previously damaged tire, the recently replaced tire is damaged. Don’t let that type of chain reaction fog your tire failure reports.

You are correct. With Duals on the TV or tandem ib the TT, when one tire fails the companion has to support 200% load. "Limping" or slowing down for many seems to mean 45 to 50 mph rather than their normal 60 to 65 or faster. The reality is that you would need to never exceed 5 mph if you wanted to avoid doing damage to the un-failed tire. The other problem is that unless you run a TPMS you do not know when one tire started loosing air (and transferring load to the good tire) So even before you stopped it is entirely possible that serious damage has already been done to the "good" tire.